MINUTES

ADVISORY COMMITTEE

Thursday, March 16, 2006

 City Hall, Room 604

 5:30 P.M.

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:  Fred Graves, Guy Zima, Tom Weber, Chris Wery, Gary Kriescher

 

MEMBERS EXCUSED:  John Vander Leest

 

OTHERS PRESENT:  Atty. Jerry Hanson, Chad Weininger

 

 

  1. Roll Call.

 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Fred Graves at 5:35 p.m.  All members were present with the exception of Ald. John Vander Leest, who was excused.

 

  1. Approval of the Agenda.

Motion made by Ald. Kriescher, seconded by Ald. Wery to approve the agenda.  Motion carried.

 

  1. Approval of the Minutes of the January 16, 2006 meeting.

Motion made by Ald. Kriescher, seconded by Ald. Weber to approve the minutes of the January 16, 2006 Advisory Committee meeting, as submitted.  Motion carried.

 

  1. Request by Ald. Van Den Heuvel to review why vacant lots in the city are taxed at different rates.

Atty. Hanson stated that Ald. Van Den Heuvel had called him today and said he would not be able to attend this meeting due to his child being ill.  Atty. Hanson stated that Ald. Van Den Heuvel had only spoken with him about agenda item #6.  Ald. Graves stated that apparently Ald. Van Den Heuvel had been in contact with Doug Daul and with the Assessors Office, and the feeling earlier in the week was that he was satisfied.  He said apparently last night Mr. Van Den Heuvel was not satisfied and was going to appear tonight to address his concerns.

 

Ald. Graves shared information he received from the Assessor’s Office relative to questions about the use of a Development Consideration or as it is sometimes referred to, a Development Discount in the appraisal process.  A brief overview on the process, which is used by municipalities throughout the state, was provided as listed below:

 

·        When a subdivision is first created, all subdivisions are given what is called a “Development Consideration” due to the access to utilities, the condition of streets and the percentage of lots that have been sold.  Ald. Graves said he believes this means that a price of a lot is assumed between the developer and the Assessor’s office and then it’s discounted.

·        Over time, as individual lots are sold, the Development Consideration is removed from the individual parcel.  Once 75% of all the lots in a subdivision are sold, any Development Consideration on the remaining lots are then removed.  Ald. Graves stated that as they are sold and houses are constructed he is of the belief that the price of the lot at that time would be assessed at what it was sold at or what it was agreed to previously, most likely the higher of the two. 

·        Municipalities may have subdivisions that have the Development Considerations and also have some that do not.  It is all based upon the percentage of lots sold within the specific subdivision. 

 

The Assessors Office indicated that all property in the City of Green Bay is taxed at the same rate.

 

Ald. Graves recapped his understanding of the process stating that if a developer comes in and does a subdivision, he is granted this Developer’s Consideration.  If he sells it, that consideration is then lifted.  Ald. Weber added that it is lifted on each lot as they are sold, or once 75% of the lots are sold in the subdivision.  He said this is a starting incentive for the developer to get going because they have to put money into improvements and things and they don’t want to do that at 100% of the real assessed value.

 

There being no further discussion, motion was made by Ald. Zima, seconded by Ald. Weber to receive and place on file the request by Ald. Van Den Heuvel to review why vacant lots in the city are taxed at different rates.  Motion carried.

 

  1. Report by the City Attorney on the process from Robert’s Rules of Order regarding inappropriate behavior and conduct when somebody raises a point of order.

Atty. Hanson distributed a memo to the Committee reviewing the point of order which is when a member is calling upon the chair for a ruling about the rule that is in question.  He stated that it is in order when another has the floor and it does not require a second.  Atty. Hanson said it is not debatable; the chair is the one making the ruling and the member can appeal the ruling to the body and then it’s majority vote after that. 

 

Regarding breaches of order, if there is inappropriate behavior or conduct, the following rules apply:

  1. If there is a slight breach of order, the chair simply raps lightly, points out the fault, and advises the member to avoid it.
  2. If there is a more serious offense, the chair normally should first warn the member and “call the member to order”.
  3. In cases of obstinate or grave breach (if the inappropriate behavior continues) then the chair does not have the authority to impose the penalty but it’s the Council who has the ability.  The Chair would ask the assembly “what penalty should be imposed on the member”?  A penalty may be an apology, censure, required to leave the hall during the remainder of the meeting or until he or she is prepared to apologize.  Expulsion from the remainder of the meeting requires a two-thirds vote.

 

Ald. Weber stated that he would like to see new Council members receive a copy of Robert’s Rules of Order.  Chad Weininger said they are planning to hold an orientation session for new members, possibly a mock session.  Atty. Hanson said he is going to put together a packet for new members.

 

Motion made by Ald. Zima, seconded by Ald. Kriescher to receive and place on file the report by the City Attorney on the process from Robert’s Rules of Order regarding inappropriate behavior and conduct when somebody raises a point of order.  Motion carried.

 

  1. Request by Ald. VanDenHeuvel to have all RDA spending approved by the City Council.

Atty. Hanson said in talking with Ald. Van Den Heuvel today, he inquired what the issue was because most of the funding that occurs at RDA also goes through Council, TIF approvals, CDBG, etc.  He said Ald. Van Den Heuvel indicated that there was a $50,000 loan or grant to Mr. Chris Swan on some program for the education of minorities and he was curious as to what that was all about.  Atty. Hanson was unable to reach Rob Strong, but said Mr. Strong left a voice mail stating that Council grants monies to the RDA to dish out and all checks that are approved don’t necessarily get sent back to the Council.

 

Ald. Kriescher said when Council denied the block grants for the Hmong Center and for Mr. Swan, they agreed to let RDA come up with money to pay for these things, adding that he does not remember a sum of $50,000.  Atty. Hanson also believed this amount was $5,000.  Ald. Weber said that Mr. Swan applies for a large sum from block grants each year and he believed this year it was for the building of another home which would be sold.  Atty. Hanson said Ald. Van Den Heuvel plans to pull this item at the Council meeting for discussion.

 

Ald. Zima stated that some time ago he brought forward a request that final expenditures of CDBG come before Council.  He said evidently in this year’s block grants they said they had some money left over or coming back, and there might be some money later for these programs and the money could be shifted at that point in time.  He indicated that he believes Ald. Van Den Heuvel’s wishes are that whatever decisions the RDA makes regarding that, comes back for Council approval, so things are not left to administration strictly by the RDA because they might do something that is contrary to what Council wants.  He added that Council makes the initial approval for the programs to be funded in the CDBG. 

 

Ald. Zima made a motion that any and all block grant expenditures that are not specifically approved at the time of Council approval, be returned to the City Council for final approval.  Ald. Kriescher seconded for purpose of discussion.

 

Ald. Weber stated that he believed the item should be held until Rob Strong could be present.  He added that the RDA is, by statute, an agency of the state and under the statute is given all kinds of powers.  Mr. Weber said the relationship of most RDA’s with the municipality is one of funding their operations.  He said the RDA has bonding power, condemnation, they can make loans, etc.  He said he believes it would be extremely cumbersome to ask RDA to come forward every time there is an expenditure, when that money is in the system, in the RDA’s flow of funds.  Mr. Weber added that the concept is, the RDA expects, by design, some autonomy and they work almost as a private sector partnership.  He stated that he doesn’t believe this fits with the intent of the structure by the state and fulfilling its purpose.  He said the would prefer to have this sent back to the next meeting so that Rob Strong and staff can address that particular issue and other accounting issues.  Mr. Weber said he would not support Ald. Zima’s motion.

 

Ald. Zima said his motion said only things that were not specifically approved at the time of grant approval, such as some money that was left in a fund that was unidentified or unspecified, that it come back for approval and do not use their autonomy to decide.  Atty. Hanson asked if the $5,000 for the Hmongs and $5,000 for Mr. Swan would need to come back for approval?  Ald. Kriescher said it was grant money to begin with and instead of reallocating it, it was the understanding that RDA would come up with funds that they received back, and Council knew about it.  Ald. Weber concurred saying that it was agreed that they would be done with it at Council.  Further discussion surrounded the amount of money that Mr. Swan requested, with Mr. Zima stating that votes were taken separately on removing money from the Swan account and from the Hmong account.  He added that there was some discussion about returning funds later and he is reiterating that expenditure of these funds should come back to Council.  There was discussion as to what was approved at Council regarding these funds, with Ald. Zima understanding that funds would come back for Council approval.  Ald. Weber didn’t believe this was the motion at Council, adding that they are funded by the Council each year and said we don’t ask every department to come back with every expenditure. 

 

Ald. Graves said the agenda item states all spending by the RDA be approved by Council, and does not relate to a specific item.  Ald. Zima reviewed the history of the RDA stating that when it was originally formed, it was in order to take advantage of urban renewal monies that the Federal Government was making available but they wanted to insure that cities at that time weren’t incorporating those funds into their regular budgets, but were for extra projects.  Mr. Zima said they wanted an autonomous body at that point to make those decisions so it wasn’t a political decision, but a community decision.  He stated that the necessity for that has passed, adding that the requirement for those types of federal grants was only for a couple of years.  He said the RDA has become a nestidual remnant; something that is left over but we really don’t need to have but the City of Green Bay has chosen to keep it.  He recalled that some years ago Council said to come back with any expenditures they have.  Mr. Zima said what happened here is that a couple of things have fallen through the cracks and have gotten the ire of a few Councilmen.

 

After further discussion regarding the motion and the vote that was made at Council regarding the Hmong and Swan funds, Ald. Zima withdrew his previous motion and Ald. Kriescher withdrew his second.  A motion was made by Ald. Kriescher, seconded by Ald. Weber to receive and place on file the request by Ald. Van Den Heuvel to have all RDA spending approved by the City Council and to ask staff to have the information ready for the next Council meeting.  Motion carried.

 

  1. Request by Ald. Zima that the City institute a permit fee for newspaper vending machines commensurate with the rising costs for municipal legal publications in the current monopolistic environment.

Atty. Hanson stated that there are currently four different groups that have vending machines on city right-of-way:  the Green Bay Press-Gazette, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Start Renting and an Auto and RV publication.  He indicated that the fee is $50 per company, per year, and set out by ordinance and an application must be completed. Discussion surrounded how many machines are out there and if there is a limit to the number, and what private property owners charge for this machines on their property.  Ald. Graves said if he was a business owner, he would welcome them on his property and not want to charge them.  Ald. Zima said we should be able to raise rates to them since the Press-Gazette doubled our rates for legal publications and raised our rates again this year.  He said they now have a monopoly with being the only paper in the city and believes we should charge per vending machine and according to the circulation such as $25 per machine and go from there .  Atty. Hanson said two vendors have free circulation and suggested we look at what other communities are doing, with Ald. Zima stating that he doesn’t care what other communities are doing.  Ald. Weber said not to be confused on free publications, stating that their money is raised through classified advertising, not on circulation rates.  He said the reason our rates have gone up is because classified advertising in the newspapers has taken a real hit since the internet.  Ald. Zima withdrew his earlier thought, adding that we need to find the right amount and initiate the increase.  Ald. Weber and Kriescher agree with finding out what other communities are charging.  Ald. Zima said we should charge per vending machine possibly $2 per day.  Ald. Graves said he looks at it differently with being in business, this increase simply adds to the cost of doing business and since they are the only newspaper, next year they could raise prices to the city and to residents who advertise.  He feels we defeat the purpose and penalize the residents of the city.  Ald. Kriescher said rates for advertising are determined by circulation; the more customers you have the more you can charge and people will cancel if rates go up too much.

 

Discussion ensued regarding whether the city can publish its own legals and placing one vending machine per district with our legals.  Ald. Graves inquired if ordinance requires us to publish our legals in the newspaper?  Chad Weininger stated that the city can apply for a waiver through the state, Department of Administration, adding that it’s very unlikely that the waiver would be granted. He said he could check into different options for publishing our own legals, adding that he believes we still would need a waiver. He indicated that he will check in the state statutes to see what the requirement would be for publishing in another source.  Ald. Graves asked if we could publish something in the paper that would state refer to the city’s web page, etc.  Ald. Weber said he believes there is a middle ground and if we go into an attack mode and pick a fight with the Press-Gazette, the paper will pack onto the rates they charge the city.  He agrees that $50 per year for the Press-Gazette to have how many boxes out there is a sweetheart of a deal and feels some increase is appropriate.  Further discussion included finding the number of boxes on city right-of-way, checking into alternative methods and finding out the last time we increased our fees.

 

A motion was made by Ald. Kriescher, seconded by Ald. Weber to have staff check into alternative methods of publishing legal notices, to research what other communities are doing, and to research what the private sector is charging to have newspaper boxes on their property. Ald. Zima amended the motion to ask staff to have this information available by the next Council meeting and to Advisory Committee members prior to the Council meeting in case they have questions.  Motion carried.

 

  1. Schedule next meeting.

The next meeting will be held after the April election when the next Council is seated, unless there is an emergency, at which time a special meeting would be called.  Ald. Graves thanked the recording secretary and chairs of the committees for their work, input and dedication.

 

  1. Adjourn

There being no further business, motion was made by Ald. Kriescher, seconded by Ald. Weber to adjourn.  Motion carried.  The meeting adjourned at 6:25 p.m.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Mary Haupt

Recording Secretary