MINUTES
TRAFFIC
COMMISSION
Monday,
June 22, 2009
City
Hall, Room 310
5:30
pm
MEMBERS PRESENT: Vice Chairperson Matt Kuepers, Charles Karow,
Mark Schuster, and Lieutenant Brad Florence, Alderman Andy Nicholson
MEMBERS ABSENT: Chairperson Brad Hopp (excused)
OTHERS PRESENT: Alderperson Amy Kocha, Ald. Jerry Wiezbiskie, and Recording Secretary and
Traffic Engineer Dave Hansen
1. Approval of the minutes from the June
1, 2009 Traffic Commission meeting.
A motion was made by Lt. Florence, seconded
by M. Schuster, and carried to approve the minutes from the June 1, 2009
Traffic Commission meeting.
The remaining items were taken in
this order: 6, 8, 2,
2. Request by the Green Bay Area Public
Schools for crossing guard studies at the intersections of Mason/Alpine (Edison
Middle), I-43/Mason Southbound Ramp (Edison Middle), and Mason/Country Club
(Lombardi Middle and Southwest High).
D. Hansen read a letter from a
Michael Donart of the Green Bay Area Public Schools whom request the study for
crossing guards at certain intersections.
Dave stated that middle and high school crossing guards are not funded
through the Police Department but rather the school district. He described the future plans of sidewalk and
pedestrian signals at these intersections.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson
that the request by the Green Bay Area Public Schools for crossing guard
studies at the intersections of Mason/Alpine (Edison Middle), I-43/Mason
Southbound Ramp (Edison Middle), and Mason/Country Club (Lombardi Middle and
Southwest High) be referred to DPW for study.
Motion fails by lack of a second.
A discussion took place on who will pay for
the crossing guards. Will the schools contribute 50% or more? D. Hansen recommended crossing guard studies
to be done at these intersections during school hours so a more accurate head
count is documented, as the only numbers he has now is the potential ridership
of the current hazard route, not the actual pedestrians that will walk rather
than carpool or get dropped off by a parent.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson
to amend the first motion to conduct the crossing guard study after the next
school year is in session. Motion fails
by lack of a second.
More discussion took place.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by M. Schuster and carried that the request by the Green Bay Area
Public Schools for crossing guard studies at the intersections of Mason/Alpine
(Edison Middle), I-43/Mason Southbound Ramp (Edison Middle), and Mason/Country
Club (Lombardi Middle and Southwest High) be postponed until the next Traffic
Commission meeting on Monday, July 27, 2009.
3. Request by Amy Binsfeld
(106 Woodlawn Avenue) to review the NO PARKING HERE TO CORNER zone on the east
side of Woodlawn Avenue at Shawano Avenue.
D. Hansen stated the requestor would
like available parking in front of her house.
He had no concerns with the request.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence, and carried that, on a 90-day trial, to:
(A)
Remove
the 2-HOUR 7 AM TO 4 PM SCHOOL DAYS zone on the east side of Woodlawn Avenue
from a point 90 feet north of Shawano Avenue to Hubbard Street.
(B)
Establish
a 2-HOUR 7 AM TO 4 PM SCHOOL DAYS zone on the east side of Woodlawn Avenue from
a point 60 feet north of Shawano Avenue to Hubbard Street.
(C)
Remove
the NO PARKING zone on the east side of Woodlawn Avenue from Shawano Avenue to
a point 90 feet north of Shawano Avenue.
(D)
Establish
a NO PARKING zone on the east side of Woodlawn Avenue from Shawano Avenue to a
point 60 feet north of Shawano Avenue.
4. Request by Ald. VanderLeest to lengthen
the green arrow and green light at the traffic signals on Taylor Street at the
West Mason Street intersection.
D. Hansen stated that he has spoken
with Ald. Vander Leest about this request.
The concern is that vehicles are backing up to 7th St leading
some motorists on 7th St to make u-turns at Taylor St to avoid the
backup. D. Hansen stated that although
he didn’t witness the backup issue when he visited the site last week, he
noticed that the traffic signal was operating under a longer cycle length than
it was programmed, making it out of sync with the other traffic signals within
the W Mason 2 signal system (Packerland to Taylor). This operational error was creating backups
between the 41/Mason northbound ramp and Taylor St, which could lead to the
condition that was described by Ald. Vander Leest. D. Hansen stated he would determine the
programming error and have a city electrician return
the traffic signal to its normal cycle length which likely will reduce the long
backups on northbound Taylor St at W Mason St.
M. Kuepers confirmed that he has
witnessed these issues and that D. Hansen’s presumption was correct.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence, and carried that the request to lengthen the green
arrow and green light at the traffic signals on Taylor Street at the West Mason
Street intersection be received and placed on file.
POSTPONED FROM
PREVIOUS MEETING
5. Request by Ald. Nicholson on behalf of
Mike Thompson (1000 Lime Kiln Road) to extend the NO PARKING zone on the west
side of Lime Kiln Road at Manitowoc Road further south.
D. Hansen stated that the requestor
was having trouble seeing around on-street parked vehicles when exiting his
apartment driveway at 1000 Lime Kiln Rd.
D. Hansen stated he had no concerns with the request other than if other
residents had issues with the removal of on-street parking. He noted that there was ample off-road
parking available at the nearby apartments.
A brief discussion took place about
extending the no parking zone.
A motion was made by M. Schuster,
seconded by Ald. Nicholson, and carried that, on a 90-day trial, to:
(A)
Remove the NO
PARKING zone on the west side of Lime Kiln Road from Main Street to Manitowoc
Road.
(B)
Establish a NO
PARKING zone on the west side of Lime Kiln Road from Main Street to a point 350
feet south of Manitowoc Road.
6. Request by Ald. Kocha
to consider providing pavement assistance for the blind on University Avenue at
the intersections of Elizabeth Street, Henry Street and Danz Avenue.
D. Hansen summarized the multi-part
motion and follow up from the last Traffic Commission meeting. Via e-mail, Kail Decker, Assistant City
Attorney, responded that there appears to be no increase in personal injury
liability if the city decided to install grooved crosswalks to aide
pedestrians. Dan Wenzel, Director of the
Wisconsin Center for the Blind and Visually Impaired in Janesville, WI,
responded also in an e-mail that while some of wheelchair ramps and curbs at
intersections have tactile markings, the (City of Janesville) streets do not
have anything other than regular crosswalk markings. D. Hansen added that no grooved crosswalks
exist within the City of Janesville per their senior engineer. D. Hansen summarized the results of the
onsite meeting with the local Visually-Impaired Support Group at the DPW East
Side Garage demonstrating an existing milled pavement marking. Three support group members attended the
demo, one which is in the gallery, and agreed that the mill mark alone was not
easily detected and did not provide much assistance. During the demo, D. Hansen placed a sample of
a durable pavement marking tape within a milled-in groove. The support group members responded favorably
to the tape. D. Hansen summarized the
many benefits of the tape for pedestrians/bicyclists/motorists and for
staff. D. Hansen recommended testing a
durable pavement marking tape within a milled-in crosswalk crossing one
approach at one of the considered intersections.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by C. Karow, to install durable pavement marking tape within a
milled-in crosswalk crossing one approach of University Avenue at one of its
intersections with Elizabeth Street, Henry Street, or Danz Avenue for the
purposes of evaluating the effectiveness of assisting visually-impaired
pedestrians across the street.
A motion was made by C. Karow, and seconded
by M. Schuster to suspend the rules and allow interested parties to speak.
Mary Gliniecki (2636 Hazelwood Ln) spoke in
favor of a durable pavement marking tape within a milled-in crosswalk. She
attended the demo at the DPW East Side Garage.
She recommended the demo marking be placed at University/Henry crossing
the east approach if limited to only one approach.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence to return to regular order of business.
A brief discussion took place that
the preferred location is the east approach of University/Henry.
Motion carried.
7. Request by Ald. Vander Leest for an
update on the plan to install crosswalks and sidewalks in conjunction with
Brown County at the intersection of Hazelwood Lane and Wood Lane.
D. Hansen stated that Ald. Vander
Leest told him that the Village President of Ashwaubenon is willing to
participate in the installation of crosswalks but didn’t comment on the
installation of sidewalks. D. Hansen left
him a voicemail but hasn’t heard back from him.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence, and carried that the request for an update on the
plan to install crosswalks and sidewalks in conjunction with Brown County at
the intersection of Hazelwood Lane and Wood Lane be received and placed on
file.
TERMINATION
OF TRIAL PERIODS
8. To approve the installation of four,
over-sized, reflector stop signs with flags on Peterson Road and Kathy Drive
and that staff review the signals after 90 days (Referred from City Council on
Thursday, March 19, 2009).
D. Hansen stated that during the
trial, no crashes occurred. He also
pointed out that after the TURN AHEAD with 20 MPH supplement signs were
installed on Kathy Dr prior to the 4-WAY STOP that no crashes occurred while
operating as a 2-WAY STOP. Both trials
were roughly 90-days. D. Hansen received
a memo from Lt. Brad Florence about the enforcement efforts during the 4-WAY
STOP trial. They were asked to enforce
the intersection because many motorists were reported as not stopping for the
4-WAY STOP signs. D. Hansen provided a
summary of 3 pages of license plate numbers that were documented from the 4-WAY
STOP requestor Jerry Renier. Officers did not observe STOP sign running by
motorists that were citable offenses during 2 separate visits. D. Hansen summarized anonymous public opinion
gathered through a neighborhood survey, with a slight majority of neighbors
opposing the 4-WAY STOP condition.
Traffic counts were not taken during the trial because the volumes were
so far away from meeting the multi-way STOP warrants originally. He summarized the speed survey as a 2-WAY
STOP being 28.6 mph on Edinburgh/Kathy.
D. Hansen was not surprised that motorists were running the STOP signs,
as this is common at unwarranted 4-WAY STOP intersections. He stated that although it may seem safer for
residents living near the intersection that eventually it is likely more
dangerous, as more motorists blow the STOP sign and eventually the first
document 2 vehicle crash will occur. Not
only did the intersection not meet the warrants, but it doesn’t have balanced
traffic volumes and it’s an offset intersection, all items not conducive to a
good 4-WAY STOP installation. He stated
that the TURN AHEAD with 20 mph signs were more appropriate for trying to
reduce/eliminate the type of crashes that occurred at the intersection, which
are run off the road type crashes. He
maintained his original recommendation of a 2-WAY STOP condition at Kathy/Peterson.
Ald. Wiezbiskie stated that
neighborhood opinion has been split, hearing both for and against the 4-WAY
STOP. Those against the 4-WAY STOP are
those that run the STOP sign. The 4-WAY STOP requestors primarily live close to the intersection and
are happy with the 4-WAY STOP. He reminded
the Commission that Council voted for the 4-WAY STOPs. He was amazed on how many motorists blew the
STOP sign during the 4-WAY STOP trial.
The requestors are prepared to go to City Council and have signatures in
support of the 4-WAY STOP. He doesn’t
want to keep going back-and-forth on this item.
There are people in the gallery that want to comment on the request.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence to suspend the rules and allow interested parties to
speak.
Ald. Wiezbiskie left the meeting
shortly after speaking.
Gerald Renier
(3288 Peterson Rd) spoke in favor of the 4-WAY STOP, claiming it is much easier
now to back out of his driveway. He said
the 4-WAY STOP was not asked for to reduce neighborhood speeding but rather to
improve safety. He showed photos from 2
run-off-road crashes that occurred near the intersection. One of the crashes involved a drunk
driver. The other involved slippery leaves. He said the officers chased 4 vehicles when
they were enforcing the 4-WAY STOP. His
mailbox has been hit 7 times since he’s lived there for 34 years. Since the 90-day trial of the 4-WAY STOPs,
his mailbox hasn’t been hit. He can now
back out of his driveway without worrying about getting hit. He said he got a nasty letter that was
circulated around the neighborhood. [D.
Hansen passed the letter around for Commission members to read]. He went around the Traffic Commission to City
Council before because of the crashes.
Everyone in the neighborhoods is satisfied. Neighbors were going to ask for a cul-de-sac
but are happy with 4-WAY STOPs. Why does
4-WAY STOP at Kathy/Peterson concern someone that lives up the street? Because they have to stop
for 5 seconds? Now, 95% of
motorists stop at the 4-WAY. He can see
brake lights at the intersection from his kitchen window.
Ald. Nicholson asked who he got
nasty letters from. G. Renier responded from the Pirlots. Ald. Nicholson asked if the Pirlots were speaking as a city worker(s) or as a concerned
citizen. A woman in the gallery
responded that the letters were sent from a taxpayer perspective and that they
were not nasty. Ald. Nicholson wanted to
see the letter. G. Renier
did not have it with him. D. Hansen had
the letter and provided it to Ald. Nicholson.
Laurie Wirtz (2665 Kathy Dr) spoke
in favor of the 4-WAY STOP. She lives
one house from the intersection. Traffic
has been slower since the 4-WAY STOP was installed. It’s easier for her and teenagers to back out
of her driveway. Drivers used to not pay
attention to people exiting their driveways.
Michelle Johnson (3242 Peterson Rd)
spoke in favor of the 4-WAY STOP. She’s
a board member of the Red Smith neighborhood association. Most residents she has spoken with are happy
with the 4-WAY STOP. Has
been safer with no crashes.
Mary Jo Pirlot (3380 Edinburgh Rd)
spoke against the 4-WAY STOP. Her name
was on the letter that G. Renier referred to. The intent was not to start a neighborhood
issue but rather to gather everyone’s opinion rather than the few that brought
it to Council. Everyone that enters the
intersection from Edinburgh Rd goes past her house. She wants a safer neighborhood also, but has
noticed motorists and bicyclists don’t all stop at the 4-WAY STOP. She sees kids at intersection not even
looking for vehicles and believes they now have a false sense of security that
everyone will stop. She spoke against
the personal attacks against her and her family from those in support of the
4-WAY STOP.
Gary Fifarek was startled when the
4-WAY STOP was first installed. He has
worked the road as a police officer for 16 years and patrolled the Red Smith
area. He was curious why the 4-WAY STOP
was installed. He investigated the
intersection’s crash history. None of
the crashes were at the intersection.
Three of the four motorists involved in crashes near the intersection
lived within 2 blocks of the intersection so they should have been familiar
with it. All were cited for their
behavior, meaning human error rather than the intersection caused those
crashes. He believes the Traffic
Engineer’s recommendations are the most appropriate for dealing with the types
of crashes that have occurred, that is, the TURN AHEAD with 20 MPH signs in
both directions on Kathy Dr. He stated
that having a STOP sign at the bottom of a hill is a bad idea, especially
during winter driving conditions. The
4-WAY STOP provides a false sense of security, as motorists still drive through
the STOP signs. Eventually a crash will
occur. The offsets intersections of
Peterson Rd and Paula Dr with Kathy Dr do not provide for a good location for a
4-WAY STOP. The argument to just give
those living near the intersection the STOP signs doesn’t make sense, since he
would never ask for a cul-de-sac near his house to make his street
resident-only. Striping a double-yellow
line down the center of Kathy Dr would assist motorists through the curve and
intersection, especially at night and under foggy conditions.
Ald. Kocha
asked if implementing the Traffic Engineer’s recommendations would require
another 90-day trial. D. Hansen
responded no, since those signs are warning signs and not regulatory, and that
a 2-WAY STOP is currently the ordinance for that location.
Ald. Kocha
understands the concern of false sense of security but if neighbors near the
intersection are saying that the 4-WAY STOP has eased the problem, why wouldn’t
those residents’ statements override the false sense of security concern? D. Hansen responded that there is no 2-car
crash history at that intersection, and now we’ve just increased the
probability of crashes to occur. The
improvement of one condition benefiting only those near the intersection has
led to decreasing the safety of the hundreds of entering people per day of the
intersection. The recommendations he
made to install TURN AHEAD with supplemental 20 MPH signs have been proven to
reduce the types of crashes that have occurred near the intersection; 4-WAY
STOPs haven’t.
Ald. Kocha
questioned how these residents are supposed to get out of their driveway. M. Pirlot questioned how often does this occur. L. Wirtz didn’t have a count, but said it’s frustrating. She has the right to exit her driveway. M. Pirlot asked again, when does this occur. L Wirtz responded in the morning and afternoon during school
arrival and dismissal. D. Hansen
understands that the 4-WAY STOP may help them get out of their driveway better,
but the reason for installing STOP signs is not to assist residents out of
their driveways. Unwarranted STOPs lead
to, over time, motorists running the STOP signs, and then eventually crashes
happen. The City has unwarranted STOPs,
and has seen midblock speeds increase near them, making neighborhoods less
safe. He has a paper written by a
professional engineer that has documented issues with multi-way STOPs over decades worth of nationwide research. The issues don’t necessarily happen right
away but take years sometimes to develop, unfortunately as the neighborhood
begins to trust that all motorists will STOP at the unwarranted STOP.
Ald. Kocha
asked if D. Hansen had this research to distribute. He responded yes.
G. Renier
doesn’t know where the city got its traffic count, because he thinks the volumes
are too low. He said we don’t live in
California. Speed is not his concern;
it’s getting out of his driveway. He
can’t believe anyone would oppose the 4-WAY STOP. He questioned how long the others in the
gallery have lived in the neighborhood.
It never was this dangerous until the house in front of his was
built. He said people run stop signs all
over the city, but now at least they slow down so he can get out of his
driveway.
L. Wirtz
stated that it’s difficult to see looking north from Paula Dr onto Kathy Dr and
that the gaps used to be too short as a 2-WAY STOP.
G. Renier
would back up M. Pirlot if she requested something in front of her house.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence to return to regular order of business.
A lengthy discussion took place
about the anonymous public comments, adding sidewalks to the neighborhood,
offset intersections led to poor STOP sign locations, and blind intersection is
dangerous as a STOP.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson
to keep the 4-WAY STOP condition at Kathy/Peterson. Motion fails due to lack of a second.
A discussion took place about
enforcement, turn warning signs, if other Commission members have visited the
intersection, placement of STOP signs making the stop unnatural to motorists
and potentially contributing to the STOP sign running, painted stop line on
Kathy Dr, double yellow centerline as a calming effect, and that no crashes
occurred during both trials.
A motion was made by C. Karow,
seconded by M. Schuster, that (A) the trial of the four, over-sized, reflector
stop signs with flags on Peterson Road and Kathy Drive expire, (B) to
re-establish a 2-WAY STOP condition on Paula Drive and Peterson Road at Kathy
Drive, (C) to re-install TURN AHEAD 20 MPH signs on Kathy Drive in advance of
the Kathy/Peterson intersection, and (D) to paint a double-yellow centerline on
Kathy Drive through the Peterson Road intersection.
Ald. Nicholson asked why 3
Commission members didn’t visit the intersection before the meeting. C. Karow responded that the Traffic
Engineer’s report contained enough photos from all angles for him to make an
educated decision. The aerial images
also included in the report clearly demonstrate that the intersection cannot be
signed properly as a 4-WAY STOP. Lastly,
the reports of vehicles running the STOP sign verified that the STOP signs are
indeed unwarranted. As an engineer, he
cannot bring himself to vote in favor of an unwarranted installation that is
likely to cause issues in the future.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence to suspend the rules and allow interested parties to
speak.
G. Renier
asked Commission members to get crashes out of their minds, that he’s not
concerned about crashes, but that motorists have slowed down. He can’t understand why someone would vote to
not keep them safe. Vote for safety.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence to return to regular order of business.
Motion carried, with Ald. Nicholson
voting no.
Ald. Kocha
asked when the Traffic Commission report will be considered by Council. D. Hansen and Ald. Nicholson responded at the
Council meeting on Tue Jul 21st.
9. That, on a 90-day trial, to establish a
1-HOUR PARKING 7 AM TO 4 PM MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY zone on the north side of
Morrow Street from a point 230 feet west of Henry Street to Henry Street.
A motion was made by Ald. Nicholson,
seconded by Lt. Florence, and carried that a 1-HOUR PARKING 7 AM TO 4 PM MONDAY
THROUGH FRIDAY zone on the north side of Morrow Street from a point 230 feet
west of Henry Street to Henry Street be adopted by ordinance.
There
being no other items of discussion, a motion was made by M. Kuepers, seconded
by Ald. Nicholson, and carried to adjourn from the regular orders of
business. The meeting ended at 7:05
P.M. The next Traffic Commission meeting
is scheduled for Monday, July 27, 2009, in Room 310 at 5:30 P.M. C. Karow stated he cannot attend the next
meeting.