MINUTES
SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
GREEN BAY HOUSING AUTHORITY
Thursday, November 3, 2009
1424 Admiral Court, Second
Floor Reading Room
Green Bay, Wisconsin 54303
1:30 p.m.
MEMBERS:
D. Dolan-Wallace-Chair, D. Piton, H.
Genunzio, D. Slater.
MEMBERS EXCUSED: None.
MEMBERS ABSENT: W. VandeCastle-Vice-Chair.
OTHERS PRESENT: R. Strong, R. Hallet, A. Monday, D. Johnson.
OLD BUSINESS:
D. Dolan Wallace explained
that potential revisions to the existing plan were discussed by himself, R.
Strong, W. VandeCastle, T. Lesperance, D. Johnson, and Dan Piton in the
previous meeting on October 28th, 2009 . The changing of the new heating system from
electric to a small multiple-boiler system was considered, in addition to the
possibility of removing the stairwell from the current project.
D. Dolan Wallace stated
that the additional stairwell would provide better emergency services in the
event of a fire. One alternative would
be to leave room, or a knock-out panel to allow for the installation of a
stairwell at a later date. Eliminating
the stairs from this project would save about $200,000.
D. Dolan Wallace explained
that under current regulations, if more than 50% of the building is remodeled,
the addition of the stairs would be legally required. D. Dolan Wallace indicated that if that much
remodeling were done, adding two stairwells would probably be required or
recommended. He did clarify that this
remodeling percentage was cumulative, so smaller projects could add up to 50%
over the course of small projects. This
code has been in effect since March of last year, so that is when this
accumulation would have begun.
D. Piton discussed the
addition of a sprinkler system, or the possibility of consolidating some of the
smaller units into larger ones.
D. Johnson from AGL
indicated that the exclusion of the stairs would allow for more storage space
in the current plan, and that the footprint of the building would remain the
same through either alternative. The
alternate plan would still allow for another roof access point. This access point could be safer than the
existing access through the use of a ship’s ladder. D. Johnson also pointed out that the 2nd
floor door would be replaced with windows, and the 20-foot limit for corridor
length would still be met.
D. Dolan-Wallace indicated
that the 2nd option would require a roof or canopy over the access
area.
D. Johnson explained the
third option: A plan that looks at using the space without any accommodations
for a future stairwell. The last option
would reduce the square footage of the addition’s footprint from 1623 to
approximately 1260. This option provides
everything the other plans do, but it would be difficult to add a stairwell
later.
D. Piton indicated that the
third plan could lead to a serious problem in the future, if a stairwell is
needed or desired.
D. Dolan-Wallace indicated
the importance of sprinkler systems and changes in code, especially in terms of
elderly housing. In many cases, the
project could count on being grandfathered through any changes, but that it is
possible for residential buildings to have mandatory code changes.
D. Piton asked how much of
the project funds were from federal sources.
R. Strong stated that $431,000- $451,000 were ARRA funds, and that both
plans would use that full amount (The amount of ARRA funds are $341,467). The ARRA funds need to be obligated by March
17th.
D. Piton asked about the
financial difference between the plans, excluding the third option
presented.
D. Johnson replied that the
cost for the original plan is about $1.5 million, the layout that would
accommodate a future stair addition would cost $1.3 million, and the plan that
does not allow for the addition of stairs would cost $1.2 million. The final savings of leaving the stairs out,
would provide only about $80,000 in savings when accounting for knock-out
panels and planning.
D. Dolan-Wallace indicated
that the only compelling reason to put stairs in is for rescue services, and
that the addition of sprinkler systems should be considered.
D. Johnson stated that the
fire pump would have to be replaced, and this would cost $20,000-$40,000. Installing the actual sprinklers would
require access to the apartments, and replacing some of the ceilings. Building-wide sprinklers could be estimated
to cost about $2.25 per square foot.
With the addition of the pump, this would run $250,000. The changes to the ceilings would drive the
project cost up to $450,000-$500,000. The
generator might also require an upgrade, which could cost an addition
$80,000.
D. Johnson stated that he spoke
with John Fredericks, the heating engineer, about the installation of four compact,
110,000 BTU boilers. J. Fredericks had stated that this was not feasible
because of the venting requirements. Also, the condensation is acidic, and
could cause brick discolorations or damage, and could create dangerous
icicles. There isn’t adequate water and
gas lines to this area currently, and the extra maintenance of four extra units
should be considered. The installation
of smaller units would provide little to no savings over one central
location. It was also indicated that
with this system, the condensation points would need to be staggered to prevent
large icicle build-up.
D. Johnson estimated that the
installation of a new boiler to serve all eight floors would cost $60,000 to
install and pipe, while tapping into the existing boilers would cost $35,000. Tapping into the existing boilers is not
feasible, however, This cost could escalate to $50,000-$60,000 with remodeling
and labor to get the lines through the units.
D. Johnson stated that the utilities
cost of the electric heating system would be $2,400-$2,500 more per year than a
gas system. While the installation cost
of electric system wasn’t available during the meeting, D. Johnson stated that
the savings might not pay off before the effective life of the current boiler
system expires.
No changes were proposed to
the current plan of using electric heat.
D. Dolan-Wallace asked if
the window system at the end of each hallway is something that could be reused
if a stair-less system were used. D.
Johnson stated that the re-use of the window system is something that could be
looked at. The addition of this
stairwell might lead to it becoming a more common entrance, and sidewalks may
need to be added.
D. Dolan-Wallace pointed
out that the stairwell would need cleaning, painting, and other
maintenance. He then stated that he was
uncertain about how much of a fire sprinkler addition might be considered
remodeling. He felt that a strong
argument could be made that the addition of a sprinkler system would not be
considered remodeling.
R. Strong inquired about
collecting bids for the project both with stairs and without stairs.
D. Dolan-Wallace inquired
about the doors in the plan, and whether they would be included in the alarm
system. He then stated that receiving
alternate bids for a plan with and without stairs is probably the best option. The fire suppression would be left as is
under both plans.
A motion was made by D.
Piton to accept the plans as drawn, with the exception of receiving alternate
bids for the plan without a stairwell.
Motion seconded by H.
Genunzio.
Motion carried unanimously
by voice vote.
D. Johnson stated that the
plan might need some slight alterations, but it should be finalized two weeks
from now. The results will be brought in
for the meeting on December 17th.
The board will be notified if this timeline cannot be met.
D. Dolan-Wallace asked
about the fire-rating of the doors and windows in the plan without a stairwell,
and D. Johnson stated that these would be removed from the alternate plan as
appropriate.
D. Johnson mentioned the
use of a new generation of elevator, and the size of elevator was planned
around accommodating moving and emergency personnel, with a capacity of 5,000
pounds.
A motion was made by D.
Piton and seconded by H. Gununzio to adjourn the meeting at 2:15 p.m. Motion carried.
:jml